I tried playing sim city on my ipad mini, and it was too small - I loved the sim city games, so I thought it would be fun, but no.
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What does Switch 2 mean for gaming on Apple platforms?
- Thread starter kiranmk2
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I feel the challenges keeping iOS from being a more serious gaming platform go beyond specs. At this point, it may be institutional and near impossible to remedy.
1) When you develop a game for the switch, you know that every switch owner is going to own a game controller. You can't make that assumption with a platform like the apple tv. The Apple TV already has such a low market share. If you develop a game that requires a game controller to play properly, you are limiting your target audience to a niche of a niche. That said, I wish Apple would incentivise more developers to port their existing iOS games to tvOS (eg: larger percentage of revenue share perhaps), or look at adding them to Apple Arcade.
Grimvalor, for example, is an example of a game I thoroughly playing on my iPad (with a PS5 controller). I purchased it again on my switch so I could play it on my TV, and it was a pretty fun experience overall (while reminding me how ancient the switch's hardware is). This could be done; the developers just don't because they don't think it's worth their time probably.
For a while, Apple Arcade had World of Demons, which was removed last year (and seemingly ended on a cliffhanger). Fun game that made great use of the Apple TV's specs, and I wish there were more games like it.
2) I feel like the economics of the App Store are different from that of the switch. People are, for some reason, willing to pay $60 for a Switch game, yet baulk at paying $10 for an iPad game, while flocking to freemium games that can easily cost them way more in the long term.
Apple Arcade looks like it could be a back door to getting more console-quality games on the Apple TV, but again, Apple doesn't seem committed enough in that area. Again, many of the games seem to prioritise the bursty nature of gaming on the iPhone and iPad (ie: played in short windows), so you don't really get much in terms of depth or complexity.
Maybe people just don't have the habit of treating their mobile devices as dedicated gaming devices and prefer to have a separate piece of hardware for it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
1) When you develop a game for the switch, you know that every switch owner is going to own a game controller. You can't make that assumption with a platform like the apple tv. The Apple TV already has such a low market share. If you develop a game that requires a game controller to play properly, you are limiting your target audience to a niche of a niche. That said, I wish Apple would incentivise more developers to port their existing iOS games to tvOS (eg: larger percentage of revenue share perhaps), or look at adding them to Apple Arcade.
Grimvalor, for example, is an example of a game I thoroughly playing on my iPad (with a PS5 controller). I purchased it again on my switch so I could play it on my TV, and it was a pretty fun experience overall (while reminding me how ancient the switch's hardware is). This could be done; the developers just don't because they don't think it's worth their time probably.
For a while, Apple Arcade had World of Demons, which was removed last year (and seemingly ended on a cliffhanger). Fun game that made great use of the Apple TV's specs, and I wish there were more games like it.
2) I feel like the economics of the App Store are different from that of the switch. People are, for some reason, willing to pay $60 for a Switch game, yet baulk at paying $10 for an iPad game, while flocking to freemium games that can easily cost them way more in the long term.
Apple Arcade looks like it could be a back door to getting more console-quality games on the Apple TV, but again, Apple doesn't seem committed enough in that area. Again, many of the games seem to prioritise the bursty nature of gaming on the iPhone and iPad (ie: played in short windows), so you don't really get much in terms of depth or complexity.
Maybe people just don't have the habit of treating their mobile devices as dedicated gaming devices and prefer to have a separate piece of hardware for it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I would even like to add most people buying the Switch are the ones who play games a lot on their mobile phones.
It's definitely not specs. The OG switch is about as high performance as an iphone 7, if that.
Apple need to put out some proper first party games using their own libraries to show what the platform can do, and they need to help developers port properly.
Crappy little mobile game ports are not going to achieve anything. They really should get the developers of Expedition 33 onboard. That sort of game would run well on the mac, and its a great game.
They won’t buy an iPhone to play Nintendo games. They will just get switch. Now if they are buying a phone, sure an iPhone.
Did you buy iPhone over switch, you bought a phone just for gaming. You have switch coz you wanted dedicated gaming device.
Apple addressed this after the release of RE games. They increased the depot size so now you have full download speed. App Store has also incremental/delta updates so you don’t have to download the entire game, like the latest update to AC Shadow.
The future is handheld.
Both the Switch and Steam Deck (which has it's own dock like the Switch, and it's own OS called SteamOS), are more convenient and affordable than most gaming computers that run on Windows or macOS. I doubt there's anything either Microsoft or Apple can do to compete at the more affordable end of the market.
Both the Switch and Steam Deck (which has it's own dock like the Switch, and it's own OS called SteamOS), are more convenient and affordable than most gaming computers that run on Windows or macOS. I doubt there's anything either Microsoft or Apple can do to compete at the more affordable end of the market.
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Games aren’t written in assembly these days so this changes almost nothing.
I’d also prefer to keep my Mac for productivity stuff, and my brand new switch 2 for gaming stuff.
I’d also prefer to keep my Mac for productivity stuff, and my brand new switch 2 for gaming stuff.
The ROG Ally has better overall compatibility since it is running an AMD (x86) SoC and Windows 11. While moving to ARM would benefit the Ally in terms of battery life, I'm not entirely convinced that the battery life improvements would be worth limiting the compatibility of the device. I own both the Ally and a Switch (1), and I tend to use the Switch more for the retro gaming library than newer titles (Zelda being the primary exception).
Thanks for informing the change! I just checked the documents, and they indeed increased the file size limit for iOS 18. Now App Store can hosts 4GB bundle + 8GB assets pack + 70GB on demand resources.
Good information earlier in this thread about apples app size limit, yearly costs & lack of interest from apple imho.
To me apple creates the playground (dangles the carrot for dev’s) for games to come to its eco system, puts loads of restrictions (size of data etc) so games are restricted to simple arcade like stuff (which is fine if that’s your thing) then grabs the developers cahonnes in a vice saying pay to stay in our playground!
Apple isn’t serious about gaming. Casual gaming (candy crush crap) on a phone for 5 mins in between bus stops yes, but not set top designated box for games.
I don’t game on any of my Apple products because they don’t compare to a ps5 to ps3 level. They don’t connect me at all to the immersion I get from my ps5 games. Touch screen interface or a trackpad / keyboard doesn’t give me any immersion & is a frustrating experience.
Apples focus nowadays seems to be all around saying we have this amazing service, limiting / crippling the service so it doesn’t fully do what would make it an amazing service & getting as much £$€ out of everyone.
Every apple device / service I use or have done in the past has crippled features that could be fixed by small updates that release their full potential making them great products.
Apple has lost its way in making products / services ‘that just work’ and are hell bent in imposing gates / blocks everywhere possible thus creating a frustrating ecosystem for the user / dev. Just my 10c worth. ✌️
To me apple creates the playground (dangles the carrot for dev’s) for games to come to its eco system, puts loads of restrictions (size of data etc) so games are restricted to simple arcade like stuff (which is fine if that’s your thing) then grabs the developers cahonnes in a vice saying pay to stay in our playground!
Apple isn’t serious about gaming. Casual gaming (candy crush crap) on a phone for 5 mins in between bus stops yes, but not set top designated box for games.
I don’t game on any of my Apple products because they don’t compare to a ps5 to ps3 level. They don’t connect me at all to the immersion I get from my ps5 games. Touch screen interface or a trackpad / keyboard doesn’t give me any immersion & is a frustrating experience.
Apples focus nowadays seems to be all around saying we have this amazing service, limiting / crippling the service so it doesn’t fully do what would make it an amazing service & getting as much £$€ out of everyone.
Every apple device / service I use or have done in the past has crippled features that could be fixed by small updates that release their full potential making them great products.
Apple has lost its way in making products / services ‘that just work’ and are hell bent in imposing gates / blocks everywhere possible thus creating a frustrating ecosystem for the user / dev. Just my 10c worth. ✌️
Haha that’s a great observation!
My personal “gaming” ended as soon as I turned 18 and got into uni🤣 I was way too tired to open any game on my computer and mostly played Minecraft on an old iPad when I had some free time. Also I guess I started the “transitioning” even earlier - when my Windows PC became too slow and my parents gifted me an iMac 2012, a gorgeous machine that still works and that literally paid off every cent that was invested in it since it was also a centerpiece of my first job😃
And I guess many people nowadays work themselves off to the degree of hating on any additional screen time on the weekends when they get free time, especially (and ironically) developers - the ones who code the games, apps and stuff. Considering there are also life chores, families to spend time with, other stuff like traveling for example, cars btw, gaming is essentially non-existent for (young) adults.
So yeah, gaming is either for young or… I don’t know, maybe people who have invested into bitcoin back in 2010 and now are billionaires and have no work to do.
It also doesn’t surprise me Apple is not really trying to be on the top of the gaming industry. They add some gaming features but mostly not the AAA titles one would expect. Most games on Arcade are fun, easy games or for example fully trash-free versions of well-known games such as Asphalt 8+, which might get boring over time but on the other hand with this “fully unlocked” edition it might be fun to occasionally launch that to unwind for 20-30 minutes😃
You can't use TFLOP numbers to compare performance across different architectures, let alone from different manufacturers. It's probably nowhere near a PS4 Pro in terms of raw throughput (sure, DLSS might compensate somewhat).
I don't think the Switch 2 launching changes anything. Porting code to ARM probably isn't the problem. Apple would need an official, native and complete Vulkan implementation in my opinion. MoltenVK only supports a subset of Vulkan.
I also doubt that gamers currently using Steam and other established PC platforms would want to switch to the App Store and whatever is left of Game Center.
Also for the crowd that wants the best of the best in terms of graphics, Apple only has the M3 Ultra on offer and that's nowhere close to a 5090 in gaming, and a 5090 rig is way cheaper than a 80-core M3 Ultra Mac Studio.
So, in my opinion, if Apple really wanted "PC gaming" on Macs, they'd need native Vulkan, cooperate with Valve/Steam and offer faster GPUs for lower prices. And even then why would more than a handful of people switch to a Mac for gaming?
There isn't much to gain for Apple by doing all that. They're already a major player in the largest gaming market (by revenue), namely mobile gaming.
I'm sure they'll continue having some deals with major studios to get games ported over to the Mac, but that's mainly as a showcase of how good their M chips are.
I can see the steam deck gaining marketshare simply because gaming PCs are getting too expensive.
That and the fact that with SteamOS it is basically an appliance, without the BS that comes with building or maintaining a windows gaming PC.
I think SteamOS would be more of a problem for Microsoft when Nvidia hardware is supported on it. At least if you are going by Steam hardware survey stats.
I don't think it will have any impact to Nintendo since folks that want Nintendo games have no other legal recourse for playing said games.
Agreed, I thought this type of comparisons ended decades ago? It is the same with CPU comparisons. My 9800X3D literally has the same cores as my old Intel Xeon X7560, has the same cores and clock speeds as my old 9900k CPU. Yet it is still better than either of these two by miles in terms of gaming performance.
I actually think the future is the opposite. Sure people will buy Steam Deck and others. I ONLY purchased a Switch and Switch 2 for the Nintendo titles. I am sure if Nintendo games were on PC that the Switch 2 would not be that popular.
But games lately have been basically playable movies (not to the degree of Metal Gear Solid 4, but more of a cinematic experience than typical Candy Crush Saga/Mega Man/Sonic/etc games of the past). Death Stranding, God of War, Horizon, RPGs in general, upcoming 007, Indiana Jones, etc. I cannot stand playing games especially of this type on a screen so small. Heck I don't even like playing games like Factorio or Stardew Valley on such a small screen.
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The problem is that arm is an architecture but doesn’t have a well defined instruction set. So what runs on one arm device won’t necessarily work on another. Sure there are some out there that are pretty universal, but there are quite a few different instructions sets out there for arm. They have kept it kind of a fractured platform. x86 has basically given us certain instruction sets that are universal for it. So in terms of the switch 2 and Mac, no it’s not as easy as just making the apis work or supporting a different operating system. Plus the switch will likely outsell Mac’s by a good margin. Even if it doesn’t beat the number of Mac’s in the wild.
As for games on iOS, tvOS, and iPadOS, it is highly unlikely that we will see steam come to those platforms because of Apples 70/30 revenue split and restrictions on other App Stores. Platform like steam, epic, and GOG are really what would make a huge difference but right now they’re limited to macOS and the Mac isn’t a go to platform for gaming. So unless Apple puts in a ton more effort to get gamers to move over and developers to start making games for their platform, I wouldn’t hold your breath because it’s a ton of work and a very small payoff.
The other thing to consider is that the steam deck and other handhelds are wildly popular now and with steamos coming to other handhelds we’re more likely to see ports to Linux. If not, at least made compatible with proton. I was reading the other day that steamos has something like a 30% performance increase over windows because it doesn’t include all the bloat that windows comes with these days. That was with the games running on proton.
As for games on iOS, tvOS, and iPadOS, it is highly unlikely that we will see steam come to those platforms because of Apples 70/30 revenue split and restrictions on other App Stores. Platform like steam, epic, and GOG are really what would make a huge difference but right now they’re limited to macOS and the Mac isn’t a go to platform for gaming. So unless Apple puts in a ton more effort to get gamers to move over and developers to start making games for their platform, I wouldn’t hold your breath because it’s a ton of work and a very small payoff.
The other thing to consider is that the steam deck and other handhelds are wildly popular now and with steamos coming to other handhelds we’re more likely to see ports to Linux. If not, at least made compatible with proton. I was reading the other day that steamos has something like a 30% performance increase over windows because it doesn’t include all the bloat that windows comes with these days. That was with the games running on proton.
The Switch 2 launch means little to nothing to Apple. Some developers will work on ARM optimized version to ship on the Switch 2 and then put on the Mac as well (just like Cyberpunk), but in general it will be the same as it ever was.
Some odd takes in this thread though. No one can deny that mobile (I.e. PCs) gaming is on the rise. Estimates put the Steam Deck at 4 million units. If you add in competitors (legion go/s, ally, ally X, MSI claw) then you’re around 6 million. That’s absolutely nothing compared to the Switch 1/2, but this category barely existed 3 years ago. That’s huge YOY growth. What does that mean for Apple? Nothing. They will never make a handheld console. They will simply feign an interest in gaming and move on.
What about home consoles? Same story. No console Apple could put out (and they never will) could dethrone Sony or Nintendo. There are huge back catalogs for both systems with huge brand loyalty and recognition.
What about PC/computer gaming? Also nothing. Apple would need Proton ported over to Mac in order to make any headway in that space and that comes with significant challenges like 1. Technical feasibility with Rosetta behind another translation layer and 2. Where does Apple then get the 30%? Steam would be uninterested in some partnership since Mac gaming is absolutely minuscule (due to Apple’s lack of dedication) and where would they get their 30%?
Playing modern titles on Mac/iOS is the same as it ever was and the same as it ever will be. I, however, am excited to continue playing my Cyberpunk save at work on my MacBook Pro.
Some odd takes in this thread though. No one can deny that mobile (I.e. PCs) gaming is on the rise. Estimates put the Steam Deck at 4 million units. If you add in competitors (legion go/s, ally, ally X, MSI claw) then you’re around 6 million. That’s absolutely nothing compared to the Switch 1/2, but this category barely existed 3 years ago. That’s huge YOY growth. What does that mean for Apple? Nothing. They will never make a handheld console. They will simply feign an interest in gaming and move on.
What about home consoles? Same story. No console Apple could put out (and they never will) could dethrone Sony or Nintendo. There are huge back catalogs for both systems with huge brand loyalty and recognition.
What about PC/computer gaming? Also nothing. Apple would need Proton ported over to Mac in order to make any headway in that space and that comes with significant challenges like 1. Technical feasibility with Rosetta behind another translation layer and 2. Where does Apple then get the 30%? Steam would be uninterested in some partnership since Mac gaming is absolutely minuscule (due to Apple’s lack of dedication) and where would they get their 30%?
Playing modern titles on Mac/iOS is the same as it ever was and the same as it ever will be. I, however, am excited to continue playing my Cyberpunk save at work on my MacBook Pro.
What limit?
What size restriction? You consider Resident Evil series, Death Stranding, Lies of P, Robocop: Rogue City and Cyberpunk 2077 "simple arcade like stuff"?
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