Report: TV+ Losing $1 Billion Annually as Apple Services Falter

[CarAnalogy]

Producing TV and Movie content is not a business Apple should be in at all

Even aside from the skillset and inevitable political issues, produced content is just not a smart business to get into in this day and age. YouTube slowly but inevitably became the best all around video site because people can find anything and it costs Google (relatively) nothing to run compared to the value of the content.

I'm still waiting for the economic pressures to finally force content producers and content deliverers to be two separate companies again after all the (should have been illegal) consolidation of the last few decades.

It makes way more sense for everyone for there to be one service that is excellent at delivering video, and simply buying content from the people who are excellent at creating video.

That was going to be the TV app model. It was supposed to be the one place to watch everything in a great interface that also allowed you to buy and rent things from Apple. And it was great. I think that's what Steve Jobs was alluding to when he said he finally "cracked" the TV.

But then they ruined it by releasing TV+ and prioritizing themselves and turning the TV app into a giant annoying ad for subscriptions. Did you know Messi is in Miami? I have a folder full of screenshots of Messi's face from almost every time Apple had to make certain I know that before I'm able to watch the content I purchased from them. I say almost every time because it happened so many times sometimes I just yelled and swiped it away before remembering to take yet another screenshot.

 

[bluecoast]

Apple TV+ - the only reason I can think of as to why exists is that Apple thought it was going to launch the Vision product sooner - and for less - and it needed to have a library of great VR content for it.

I do love silo and Ted lasso, so I’m glad it exists but I’m also bemused that it exists.

News - is terrible, full of click bait with an awful UI and looks terrible on the mac. No way would I pay for it. Why are they even doing this service?

Music has just been stagnating as a service & the fact that its subscription base is reported to be flat shows us why.

Fitness plus - I do like it but it’s way too expensive as a standalone product and should no way be only bundled on only the top Apple one tier. Just churning out endless beginner level routines feels a little old now as well. I’m sure they could do way more with this service.

Apple Arcade. Why? Apple can’t do gaming. It never could. It just feels greedy - ‘games are popular in the App Store! Why don’t we keep even more money ourselves from that category?’

Books - I forgot it exists. Just close it down. Everyone is using kindle and maybe kobo.

iCloud Drive & Apple one storage tiers - well we always thought there was something fishy about this & now we know why.

 

[bassanoclapper]

Last year’s annual revenue was over $400bn and profits over $90bn

I don’t think ‘hemorrhaging’ is the appropriate term for what is almost a rounding error

 

[komuh]

Just stop getting your stuff from overpriced Hollywood studios and make your own studio or buy license for best shows from MAX/Netflix etc.

There is no way to be profitable making 50-200 mil per season Hollywood shows when 90% of them end up being boring or bad and you are also last to the TV streaming party.

 

[sw1tcher]

Apple TV+ is hemorrhaging money amid a broader stall in Apple's services, according to a new report from The Information's Wayne Ma.

The paywalled report reveals that Apple TV+ is the only Apple subscription service that is not profitable. While its subscriptions grew to around 45 million last year, it is still losing more than $1 billion annually. The company has spent more than $5 billion a year on content since the service launched in 2019, but this was reduced by $500 million in 2024 in response to a push for cutbacks from Apple CEO Tim Cook and other executives.

Explains why Apple greenlit a 4th season of Ted Lasso. Apple TV+ needs familiar and popular content to keep subscribers. Popular and familiar content also means lower ad spend to promote it unlike the Argylle's $80 million ad budget.

I fully expect Apple to raised Apple TV+ subscription price as I don't believe $9.99/mo is profitable, and the launch of an ad-supported and discounted Apple TV+ tier ($4.99/mo?) to help with ARPU and profitiability.

 

[Howard2k]

agreed, managing subscriptions is a hassle, and I think a lot of these companies rely on people forgetting to unsubscribe.

My gf is 100% proof of that.

 

[cicalinarrot]

Producing TV and Movie content is not a business Apple should be in at all

Why?
They're producing very popular stuff, they won a Best Picture Oscar... they're not that bad and it helps the ecosystem.
Turning a profit is not all for all categories of products. There's many companies who lose money on hardware to make more on software and vice versa.
The make almost $400B, they can afford more losses in here before stabilizing or dumping TV.
I think it's a bit more complex than that. And I think Apple should keep trying to expand and experiment, they have the money to do that and it paid (not all thought they should have got into Mp3 players, or Phones, or wearables...)

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

Over the past few years my favourite TV series are on Apple TV.
However, every time I try and promote this to people, no one is interested when they hear Apple TV. I've tried.

There's a few movies I like but none are re-watchable. IMO, a lot of money has been wasted on the movie side of Apple TV.

Favourite list below -
Severance - great although 2nd series was too slow
Silo - again too slow
Slow Horses - one of the best
Ted Lasso
Dark Matter - first half excellent then faded into rubbish
Foundation - excellent
For All Mankind - excellent
Presumed Innocent - excellent
See - good at the time
Sugar - excellent
Defending Jacob - excellent
Tehran - another favourite
Wecrashed - good
Liaison - fantastic

This is exactly it; Apple's TV shows are fantastic but they're wasting money on big budget films. I guess someone thinks that having a big film that's in cinemas is a good way to advertise their services but I'd argue that having a good show that goes viral does that a hell of a lot better and at a tenth of the cost. They should be focussing on more great shows and keep some aside for indie type films - like Coda.

Also, I like how you qualify each show in your list apart from Ted Lasso because... it's just Ted Lasso.

 

[Belisama]

There are too many streaming services. At least 20 just in the US?
Apple, Netflix, Disney, Amazon, Peacock, Paramount, HBO... It's just insane.
Too many services, too many subscriptions... Apple needs to be REALLY good if they want to survive.
And they are not very good IMO. They have a lot of very boring pseudo-intellectual shows with expensive actors.

 

[allpar]

AppleNews should be very profitable. Apple has added an ad to every screen scroll. A very big use of screen space ad to be exact.

I agree, but it stinks. The news choices are awful and nearly all the stories require a paying subscription. Before they got so greedy, I did read it and sometimes subscribed for a few months. Now, I see it's almost all pap and junk, so I don't bother. The important news, reported by people who understand why it's important, rarely makes it anywhere near the top. I gave up on Apple News free OR paid, and instead follow ArsTechnica and a few other sites. It's a shame, because they could have done so much with it, and supposedly real people choose the stories (I find that hard to believe), but it's about on the same crappiness level as Google news feeds.

As for TV, I agree. They had an opportunity to produce stories with excellent writers and reasonable SFX budgets. Instead, well, can I point to Foundation? Amazing SFX and crap stories that borrow some names from the books and otherwise... are basic poorly written, dull fantasy.

I agree with Belisama just now, boring pseudo-intellectual pap with overpaid actors and overly done special effects that aren't needed.

 

[Aeronauts]

They should have continued to focus on iTunes instead of subscription services. I’ve purchased lots of film & tv content. I stopped buying music when it was clear they weren’t going to start selling lossless tracks but I would start again if that changed.

 

[Samu25]

Apple Arcade is just straight garbage. I’ll never open a single game that its title ends with .io or ends in a +. Wtf does that even mean? It just sounds scammy. The worst service by far.

The + at the end simply indicates that it’s the Apple Arcade version of a game, which is free of ads and in-app-purchases, unlike the normal App Store version of those games. And there are plenty of games that don’t end in .io 😉
Arcade actually has a bunch of great titles, classics, really successful games as well.

 

[J___o___h___n]

Apple TV+ 🥱
There’s no enough content to keep me subscribed. Don’t like waiting a week for new episodes. Also had far too many free offers to consider paying. I’ll be offered it free again within weeks anyway. I’ll just wait for another offer. They should offer this free permanently to iCloud subs / Apple One users.

Apple Music 🫤
Stopped listening since HomePods got unlocked to other services. Use YouTube Music with my YouTube Premium subscription.

Arcade 🤮
Not worth the money. Would rather pay £5 for a game to keep it, than pay £5 a month for games I don’t even want.

News+ 🤮
I see no value in this service. Notifications are not even worth having switched on. Too much clickbait. It’s not even ad-free. This should be a free service.

Fitness+ ✅ £79 a year
Love this service and pay annually.

iCloud+ ✅ £8.99 a month
Love this service and pay for 2TB standalone.

Apple One 💰💰💰
If Apple One (Premier) included every service (inc 2TB iCloud) I’d pay £20 forever. That’s the max. It’s £37 (or £445 a year!!! That’s insane).

💭🤔
The first tier Apple One (£19 a month) includes iCloud 50GB, Apple Music, Apple TV+ and Arcade. Swap iCloud to 2TB, add Fitness+ & News+ and add £1, I would sign up today.

 

[komuh]

Over the past few years my favourite TV series are on Apple TV.
However, every time I try and promote this to people, no one is interested when they hear Apple TV. I've tried.

There's a few movies I like but none are re-watchable. IMO, a lot of money has been wasted on the movie side of Apple TV.

Favourite list below -
Severance - great although 2nd series was too slow
Silo - again too slow
Slow Horses - one of the best
Ted Lasso
Dark Matter - first half excellent then faded into rubbish
Foundation - excellent
For All Mankind - excellent
Presumed Innocent - excellent
See - good at the time
Sugar - excellent
Defending Jacob - excellent
Tehran - another favourite
Wecrashed - good
Liaison - fantastic

Even if someone agree with that list (questionable) this is still only like 10-12 worth wile shows no way to bring people from bigger platforms with only that.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Turning a profit is not all for all categories of products.

I'll disagree, sorry.

"turning a profit" should be for "all categories of products"

We can debate on how much profit, but just extinguishing money in perpetuity, with no plan to profitability, is not how "business" should work (any category of it).

 

[Ctrlos]

Apple perhaps need to reframe some of their business goals. Added-value services are all well and good but if nobody is using them and it’s only iCloud+ subs contributing to numbers then it needs to be cut. I’m sure others will be different but Apple News is normally the first app I delete from a new iPhone and I’ve never used fitness. Arcade is actually pretty good value, especially in an age where parents have no idea about the amount of scummy mobile games out there.

I enjoy Apply TV+ but the name is too confusing. I recall an old post somewhere saying they should rename it to ‘Gala’ (a name with double meanings!) and spin it off as a new HBO. Oh, and make the final 3 seasons of The Expanse!

 

[bluecoast]

Frankly, aren’t you describing almost everything that comes out of Hollywood today? Virtually everything is written to a tight formula - with half of it being another superhero sequel or reboot. Now, it’s probably true that most of Apple’s offerings are too cerebral for most Americans these days and that there are too many streaming services in general.

And I might add that 10-15 years ago, we had movies of books and ideas that compressed far too much into 100 minutes or so, so the movie didn’t quite make sense.

Now we get streaming tv that spins a 100 minute movie concept or maybe a movie plus sequel / mini series idea into 3-4 seasons of one hour episodes, where the story is stretched way too thinly and moves so so slowly.

Then there’s usually 18 months to 2 years between seasons, so the time a new season has appeared, we’ve all forgotten what happened in the previous one.

 

[Rodney Williams]

To me, streaming services are getting a bit pricey, and it is turning a lot of people to either cancelling the service or not even bother with it. Then in the past few years, streaming services had hiked their prices. Netflix has been hiking their prices like 3 times with a five years period if not mistaken. Hulu hiked their prices up as well. I'm getting to the point of just cancelling streaming service altogether. The only reason I still have it because my wife and family watch Netflix and Hulu Plus package streaming services. For Apple to enter the streaming service, I feel that it will a big risk for Apple due to the competition. This whole streaming service and Arcade industry is stretching Apple thin in terms of quality service and content to where they can't seem to focus on quality of iOS, macOS and iPadOS software developments.

 

[d-klumpp]

Over the past few years my favourite TV series are on Apple TV.
However, every time I try and promote this to people, no one is interested when they hear Apple TV. I've tried.

There's a few movies I like but none are re-watchable. IMO, a lot of money has been wasted on the movie side of Apple TV.

Favourite list below -
Severance - great although 2nd series was too slow
Silo - again too slow
Slow Horses - one of the best
Ted Lasso
Dark Matter - first half excellent then faded into rubbish
Foundation - excellent
For All Mankind - excellent
Presumed Innocent - excellent
See - good at the time
Sugar - excellent
Defending Jacob - excellent
Tehran - another favourite
Wecrashed - good
Liaison - fantastic

Agreed, lots of good stuff, even though I probably won't watch any of the sci-fi stuff beyond Severance. And I've not watched a single movie. But you neglect to mention other good shows and mini series, especially Bad Monkey! I'm a huge Carl Hiaasen fan -- not to mention Vincent Vaughn -- but my wife was only familiar with CH's YA stuff. Well, she quickly became addicted, and we binged Bad Monkey. So please add

Bad Monkey
Loot
Disclaimer
Morning Show
Bad Sisters
Mythic Quest

 

[Unami]

Slow Horses is great, but a lot of the rest - while looking great and often having a great premise - lacks a compelling script. They just go nowhere or seem like they are pulling punches and avoiding risks. Most shows are not bad, compared to other services, but there is just not enough there that stands out for the price. "The Problem with Jon Stewart" was never half as daring as "The daily show" is, "Mystic Quest" is no "It's always sunny in Philadelphia", "For all Mankind" no "Battlestar Galactica",...

It's just a shame that the probably cheapest part of production, the story and storytelling, doesn't get enough attention or maybe gets watered down by executices and then drags everything else down with it.

 

[syklee26]

Apple should’ve gotten rid of Eddie Cue years ago. What da hell has he done that turned into anything of value?

 

[d-klumpp]

Like the car. Why does apple want to go into businesses thet they dont already master or thay can invent

Like the phone?! A car is potentially just another tech gadget, as Chinese tech companies are demonstrating.

 

[mattopotamus]

They are basically the new HBO, IMO. I really hope they continue to invest in content.

 

[Zorn]

Notice how pivotal iCloud+ is?

See why they screw everyone on base storage and component upgrade pricing?

Notice how they never bump the included iCloud storage (or add to it per new device purchased) so you have to pay for iCloud+?

Is it more clear now why they offer no paid iCloud storage options between 200GB & 2 TB!?

The iCloud+ "business" is largely a racket

People are getting screwed, by design

Absolutely agree with your take here. I have Apple One due to being in a family group that has it, but I find every single one of Apple's services underwhelming.

Apple TV+: This is so far and away a waste of their money. The billions they are pouring into this are not coming back, and they realistically need to shutter this. It has a small handful of hits that are great, but there's no reason those can't just be done in partnership with Disney and put on their streaming service. I can't tell you the last time I opened this.

Apple News+: My favorite idea of the bunch, because I will never subscribe to 20 different things like this, but they absolutely ruined it with the ads. Not just ads, but horrible, obnoxious ads that split up the content you are reading with a HUGE blank space and one out of place garbage ad. Again, I rarely open this because every time I do I get pissed off at how ugly the layout looks with the ads just shoehorned in all over. It looks a sloppy mess.

Apple Music: Great design, horrible execution. No matter how many times I try, the "personalized" type of stations that are supposed to learn never do. It recommends the exact same songs, in the exact same order, with things shoved in that make no sense. Meanwhile, on YouTube Music, I am discovering new stuff that's exactly my taste regularly via the "My Supermix". I've tried over and over, hoping someone made Apple's offering functional, to no avail.

Apple Arcade: No clue whatsoever why this exists. Most games are throwaways with no depth, the best games on there (Balatro & Slay the Spire) are just stuff they licensed for the service. This entire line item could disappear and no one will notice.

Apple Fitness+: This is incredibly niche. I'm not a gymrat, so I'm probably the wrong audience here, but it just feels like this type of thing should be done by a company that is focused on it. There are plenty of choices out there for instructor-led virtual gym classes, there's nothing particularly unique Apple has done in this space. Just a me too.

 

[cicalinarrot]

I can't even believe this is being held up as a debate point ... when it come to APPLE of all companies

Umm ... yes... "turning a profit" should be for "all categories of products"

Either you didn't understand what I said or know nothing about the tech industry.
Let me rephrase it: profit is the ultimate goal of everything companies do but a direct and immediate profit from every product is not.
Consoles are sold at a loss to make money on software, accessories and subscriptions in many cases.
Subscriptions can be sold at a loss for a while to secure a subscribers base before raising prices or cutting costs to break even. Most streaming services went though this.
All kind of secondary services don't technically make money directly but contribute to customers' satisfaction or company's image. Apple surely wants to be seen as an omnipresent tech-media company.
Again, more complicated than "they're losing money, it's a failure".