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It’s already too late for Apple.

Tesla is just so ahead of everyone else and still accelerating much faster than competition.

Tesla’s better technology plus lower cost means market domination.

Maybe Apple never intends to compete with Tesla’s plan to sell 20 million cars per year. Apple’s $100k-200k price point will limit them to less than 100,000 or 0.1 million annual sales (I’m being generous).
Yea, I don't think that is evenly remotely true...here's quote from a Business Insider article about Autopilot but there are plenty of articles you can read and tests you can watching comparing other manufacturers to Tesla:

Tesla Autopilot fell to seventh place this year, from second in 2020. That's because Elon Musk's automaker hasn't made significant changes to Autopilot's core functionality in years, Consumer Reports said. It's mainly focused on adding features. After all this time, Autopilot still doesn't allow collaborative steering and doesn't have an effective driver monitoring system. While other automakers have evolved their ACC and LCA systems, Tesla has simply fallen behind," Jake Fisher, the organization's senior director of auto testing, said in the report."
With more companies offering more affordable EV's than Tesla and rapidly gaining or surpassing them in terms of tech, Tesla's monopoly on the market maybe coming to a close. Not to mention the brand damage Musk continues to do.
 
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Lol man we’ve heard Apple is way behind comments before huh? Especially with iPhone….”Apple will never catch up with the phones already out there”
Well, here it is different. We are talking about 2+ tons (very expensive) car with thousands of components that is manufactured in large gigafactories. The only possibility that Apple is not way behind is if: 1) it has developed a breakthrough battery technology that is years ahead of all competition and is able to scale production at unheard pace relatively easy; or 2) it has developed a self-driving technology that is very very close to average human driver and has incredibly high safety score.

Are you ready to bet that Apple has one of those two things in its sleeve? Or anything similar that is vastly superior to Tesla for example?

Apple Car has been in development for more than 8 years now and we haven't see any part leak, not even a single screw, or any other evidence, either direct or indirect, of actual physicals existence of a vehicle or anything reassembling a vehicle.

And if we are talking about self-driving software, such software needs to rely on real-world data and driving, so Apple should have enormous fleet (50,000 vehicles) undercover collecting data for the software to learn how to drive safely. Where are these?
 
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Had Jobs been alive, this would'be been Apple Car.


Even if they ship their first EV in 2026, it would be too late. The EV market will have been too saturated for them to make a dent. 2024 and 2025 will be big years for EV, newcomers like Vinfast and old guards like Volve are both releasing new models. I just don't see Apple Car being competitive in this market having no experience or transferable expertise whatsoever save Car Play.

Their best bet is to leverage Apple Silicon and Car Play, but so far it doesn't really look like they're going in that direction.

You know what else Apple didn’t have experience or transferable expertise in?

Mobile phones.
 
Well, here it is different. We are talking about 2+ tons (very expensive) car with thousands of components that is manufactured in large gigafactories. The only possibility that Apple is not way behind is if: 1) it has developed a breakthrough battery technology that is years ahead of all competition and is able to scale production at unheard pace relatively easy; or 2) it has developed a self-driving technology that is very very close to average human driver and has incredibly high safety score.

Are you ready to bet that Apple has one of those two things in its sleeve? Or anything similar that is vastly superior to Tesla for example?

Apple Car has been in development for more than 8 years now and we haven't see any part leak, not even a single screw, or any other evidence, either direct or indirect, of actual physicals existence of a vehicle or anything reassembling a vehicle.

And if we are talking about self-driving software, such software needs to rely on real-world data and driving, so Apple should have enormous fleet (50,000 vehicles) undercover collecting data for the software to learn how to drive safely. Where are these?

So you don’t think the fleet of vehicles gathering data for Apple Maps could also be gathering data for the car?
 
Is it even possible, regulation wise, to have no steering wheels and pedals?
Of course not, regulators in USA won't even let companies remove side mirrors even though they are an aerodynamic nightmare and we have superior display methods in the cars now to replace them.
 
Tesla is just so ahead of everyone else and still accelerating much faster than competition.

Tesla’s better technology plus lower cost means market domination.

Maybe Apple never intends to compete with Tesla’s plan to sell 20 million cars per year. Apple’s $100k-200k price point will limit them to less than 100,000 or 0.1 million annual sales (I’m being generous).

20M cars/yr -- is that production or Tesla recalls? I spent a couple hours this weekend discussing cars, particularly e-vehicles with a cousin who was an early adopter of a Model S and then later also a Y. He's a car guy and engineer who has enjoyed the challenges of beta-testing (figuratively) for Elon, including the unpredictable spontaneous blasts of full-volume radio. He likes the vehicles overall, despite the scary self-driving issues, but he doesn't see Tesla remaining competitive in the higher end of the market. Indeed, when Audi and the like update models every couple years, it's hard to see homely Tesla models competing much longer against stylish e-vehicles from established luxury auto makers.

Fun fact: I was surprised that my cousin has observed that otherwise low-maintenance Tesla chews through tires, such that he gets only half the expected life from tires due to the more aggressive acceleration and braking inspired by the quickness.
 
Weird 2017 Model S and Model X are selling just fine. What do ‘real vehicles’ even mean? Like the ones you have to keep doing oil change and maintenance in order to count as real vehicles?
No, like the ones that are utterly useless for people who actually go places, carry loads, trailer things, drive in freezing temps, drive in hot temps, drive moderate distances, etc. In other words venturing past Starbucks or Whole Foods.

Here's some videos to break your reality:

Makes sense. Speak like someone who has never driven an EV.
My brother in-law has a Tesla, my sister a Nissan. While the Tesla is fast as hell from a stoplight, it's nothing more than Mustang with even less capability. Anytime they go somewhere other than across town, they leave the toys at home and take their ICE. Two EV's and one SUV required for two drivers.
 
No actually I haven’t. But know many people who have and these are all real world issues. You can sweep it under the rug and plug your ears if you want, but this is life.
So sounds like you should be the one to be open minded. Whether you like it or not, EV is going to be the future and on an inevitable and irreversible path. Buying EV will be the norm in not so distant future when countries and states start banning ICE cars.
 
No, like the ones that are utterly useless for people who actually go places, carry loads, trailer things, drive in freezing temps, drive in hot temps, drive moderate distances, etc. In other words venturing past Starbucks or Whole Foods.

Here's some videos to break your reality:


My brother in-law has a Tesla, my sister a Nissan. While the Tesla is fast as hell from a stoplight, it's nothing more than Mustang with even less capability. Anytime they go somewhere other than across town, they leave the toys at home and take their ICE. Two EV's and one SUV required for two drivers.
Or maybe they have smaller EV and need bigger cars to travel? Millions of people trip in Tesla with superchargers readily available. You can fight the trend but it is inevitable. Do you think Apple is developing self-driving for EV or ICE car?
 
So sounds like you should be the one to be open minded. Whether you like it or not, EV is going to be the future and on an inevitable and irreversible path. Buying EV will be the norm in not so distant future when countries and states start banning ICE cars.
WRONG! I’ll see you back on here in 24 months to tell you I told you so.
 
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WRONG! I’ll see you back on here in 24 months to tell you I told you so.
It’s way more likely you will come back here in a few months asking what EV to buy. With Inflation Reduction Act where US government is literally paying $7500 for people to buy EV, and states like NJ and CA giving out additional incentive of 2k or 4k, in additional to no sales tax, you would be crazy to buy an ICE car instead. This is not even taking into account all the fuel and maintenance savings that you will get, and on top of getting all the latest technologies. Sure, go ahead and count EV out. You are in for a disappointment.
 
Or maybe they have smaller EV and need bigger cars to travel? Millions of people trip in Tesla with superchargers readily available. You can fight the trend but it is inevitable. Do you think Apple is developing self-driving for EV or ICE car?
No, the SUV isn’t much bigger, Nissan Murano. At a certain point reality takes over. The drivetrain is 100% better for any trip over 50 miles.

It’s way more likely you will come back here in a few months asking what EV to buy. With Inflation Reduction Act where US government is literally paying $7500 for people to buy EV, and states like NJ and CA giving out additional incentive of 2k or 4k, in additional to no sales tax, you would be crazy to buy an ICE car instead. This is not even taking into account all the fuel and maintenance savings that you will get, and on top of getting all the latest technologies. Sure, go ahead and count EV out. You are in for a disappointment.
EV’s have been around for over 100 years. You’d have to be crazy to think they are good considering the government has to give tens of thousands of dollars in tax credits to buy one. Bo Diddlley nailed it, ““you're so ugly, your momma had to tie a pork chop around your neck so the dog would play with you”.

Blows my mind that anyone today can think EVs are merely a fad. These people must be living in the boonies and not get out much.
Blows my mind that anyone thinks EV’s are anything more than a fad. These people must not go anywhere or do anything outside of their 15 minute city.
 
Blows my mind that anyone thinks EV’s are anything more than a fad. These people must not go anywhere or do anything outside of their 15 minute city.

It's not a binary situation - an EV not fitting your use case doesn't make it a fad either. Most of us understand that distinction.
 
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No, the SUV isn’t much bigger, Nissan Murano. At a certain point reality takes over. The drivetrain is 100% better for any trip over 50 miles.


EV’s have been around for over 100 years. You’d have to be crazy to think they are good considering the government has to give tens of thousands of dollars in tax credits to buy one. Bo Diddlley nailed it, ““you're so ugly, your momma had to tie a pork chop around your neck so the dog would play with you”.


Blows my mind that anyone thinks EV’s are anything more than a fad. These people must not go anywhere or do anything outside of their 15 minute city.
Any trip over 50 miles? So what was I, and millions of EV drivers doing last few years commuting over 50 miles a day? How did we all make home perfectly fine?

EV has been around for over 100 years? 100 YEARS? Ok you lost me there. I got nothing.

People are replacing aging ICE cars now with EVs and using as their only vehicles. Working perfectly fine commuting and road tripping. What exactly are your particular scenarios that EVa can’t do? You have weird misconception that only ICE cars can go distances and somehow EVs can only go 15 minutes drive. Bizarre.
 
It’s way more likely you will come back here in a few months asking what EV to buy. With Inflation Reduction Act where US government is literally paying $7500 for people to buy EV, and states like NJ and CA giving out additional incentive of 2k or 4k, in additional to no sales tax, you would be crazy to buy an ICE car instead. This is not even taking into account all the fuel and maintenance savings that you will get, and on top of getting all the latest technologies. Sure, go ahead and count EV out. You are in for a disappointment.
I’ll buy one right now if you can show me that I can tow my 5th wheel for 350+ miles with an EV.
 
Any trip over 50 miles? So what was I, and millions of EV drivers doing last few years commuting over 50 miles a day? How did we all make home perfectly fine?

EV has been around for over 100 years? 100 YEARS? Ok you lost me there. I got nothing.

People are replacing aging ICE cars now with EVs and using as their only vehicles. Working perfectly fine commuting and road tripping. What exactly are your particular scenarios that EVa can’t do? You have weird misconception that only ICE cars can go distances and somehow EVs can only go 15 minutes drive. Bizarre.

Hundred miles round trip and you better make sure you’re topped off before you start, or range anxiety starts to kick in, and that‘s under ideal conditions. Otherwise your‘re parked for who knows how long at a hopefully functioning recharging station.

Pepole are replacing ICE vehicles with EV’s because it’s “the cool thing to do”. Wait to see how many of them purchase a second one when it’s time to replace the battery pack. 100+ years and EV’s still haven’t caught on. Only by the government giving tax breaks can they get people to buy them now. What happens when those programs come to an end?

California has trouble keeping the lights on as it is. What happens when everyone has an EV? You need nuclear power to make this a reality. Those plants aren’t even being planned, let alone built. Windmills and solar aren’t going to cut it.

What happens when people start to see the environment impact of cobalt mines? People freak out about clean, air conditioned iPhone factories, can’t wait for them to see actual children working at a cobalt mine in Africa or South America. Not to mention all the other rare earth minerals needed.

In the last 3 weekends alone I’ve driven ~ 3,000 miles. Can’t imagine how much time I would have wasted at a charging station.

You enjoy your EV, I won’t stop you from buying one. I’ll continue to drive ICE vehicles. Some day in the not so distant future you’ll say Razorpit you were right, and we’ll have a beer together and laugh the whole thing off.
 
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